Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Two Minutes Of Thunder Basketball Wins The Game

When Is a Conference No Longer a Conference?

Most everyone in the college sports-blogging world has spent the week chewing over various conference expansion schemes. Some of that is because all of the conference commissioners were down in Scottsdale meeting, and couldn't keep their mouths shut even if they cared to. The rest is de to the fact that it's the silly season of college sports, and folks like nothing better than making their own ideal conference line-ups. It's basically the sports version of writing fanfic, but with slightly less slash involved. (And only slightly – I remain unconvinced folks aren't putting Texas and Florida in the same conference only to increase the odds Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy somehow find themselves making out.)

The cold water will soon be thrown on most of these ideas; everyone's already decided that Notre Dame's sitting things out, for instance. But everyone seems oddly excited about 16-team superconferences in general. Am I the only one who thinks it's an absolutely horrible idea?

The general theory seems to revolve around the Big Ten leaping from 11 teams to 16 by stealing a couple of Big East football teams, and maybe Missouri and Iowa State. The SEC responds by poaching Texas and Texas A&M from the Big 12 and Florida State and Clemson from the ACC. Then there are second order effects combining the Pac-10 with most of the rest of the Big 12 and the ACC probably scooping up the rest of the Big East, leaving four 16-team conferences and some bystanders. Now, let's put aside that the last sixteen team superconference broke apart after only three years because of travel costs and academic concerns. Or that the superconference in UNC's own history twice had mass defections to form other conferences.  What does a sixteen team conference get you?

In football, you're going to get eight or nine conference games. And most likely eight, since Texas and Florida aren't going to sign up for a ninth game when they still have Oklahoma and Miami on their respective schedules. You either end up with two conferences with a scheduling agreement and a weird playoff at the end or  the strange rotating quadrants of the mayfly that was the 16-team WAC. The latter won't fly anywhere where there's more than one rivalry per team – just think about the SEC. Florida has to be paired with Florida State, but they also need the World's Biggest Cocktail party with Georgia and the Tennessee game. But Tennessee needs its Alabama rivalry, and Georgia its game with Auburn; something gets blown up in this situation. And if you have two divisions, well then you get to see your vaunted Texas-Florida matchup twice every sixteen years. Exciting.

In basketball, of course, you're pretty much stuck with the Big East's horrible method of one game per year, and possibly the bizarre system where you can fail to make your own conference tournament. That right there is why you'll never see the ACC expand to 16; not only is the ACC tournament still the big moneymaker that needs to be protected from dilution, but shifting to one scheduled UNC-Duke game a year, would be a huge profit loss in addition to being a crime against humanity. The SEC probably wouldn't bat an eye about diminishing a pretty weak basketball product, but the Big and Pac Ten-or-Mores would probably pull back from the abyss. And it would actively destroy most of the Olympic sports, as travel expenses became unmanageable and ate away at a chunk of the new pot of money.

So no, sixteen-team conference probably won't start popping up any day now, and if one came into existence it would probably fall apart pretty quickly. We're stuck with the kluged-together system we have now, as more teams approach twelve and keep threatening to poach one another. Expect lots of talk but little action, the NCAA's favorite type of game.

Comment 6 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

See your point but

Disagree. First and foremost I think bringing up basketball is essentially pointless in that they won’t be pulling the strings. Going to 4-16 team leagues does a couple things that would be great for college football and, as I’m a fan of, absolutely put the NCAA in its place.

I’ve seen some models toy with 4-4 team divisions, others roll with 2-8 team divisions and others go with the “rivalry games” model as the basis and then rotational scheduling to fill out the conference match ups. True “The World’s Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party” plus FSU-UF, UF-LSU and UF-UT must be played yearly. Same with LSU-Ark, LSU-Bama, LSU-UF but that’s 3 rivalry games per team, leaving 5 or 6 conference games.

That’s semantics in my opinion because in the end, regardless of how they worked out the conference schedule you’d have 3 or 4 non-conference games. With 3 you could play 1 team from each other league OR 2 teams and play a gimme game. 4 would mean 3 and a gimme. Better for football fans, better for football itself as well.

Everyone plays a conference title game, then we have 4 teams to play in a plus-1 format.

I hope the ACC doesn’t do the slow assing around that the Big East has done this decade. Letting the Big Ten dictate would spell death. SEC moving forward would mean Clemson, FSU, VT are vulnerable to poaching. Our league doesn’t make enough money to keep any of them.

While I respect your argument the idea that these 12 ACC institutions can stand pat as a union while the Big Ten and SEC expand is placing the utmost confidence in school’s desire to belong to a “basketball conference.” I don’t have that same confidence. For the sake of cash, coming in the form of tv markets and tv deals, I’d prefer Swofford start with ND and work his way through his rolodex with Pitt, Syracuse, UConn, Rutgers all on that list.

Otherwise when the move happens we’ll be sitting around holding our jocks as Clemson/FSU/VT are tap dancing away to the tune of $20+million a year. I fear that ECU, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati or USF will be what’s left for our league if we play the “sit and wait” game.

Yeah BoYeeEEeeE

by InTheBleachers on Apr 27, 2010 9:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Basketball doesn’t mean anything to the SEC and Big 10, but it’s still a huge chunk of ACC revenue. I don’t want to be the guy negotiating the next ESPN deal from the position of reducing the number UNC-Duke games from two to one. They’ll get slaughtered.

You have much greater faith in college football scheduling than I do; looking at the way SEC teams schedule nonconference games now, you’re definitely getting four nonconference games and at least two if not three will be gimme games. ADs will just point to how tough their new 16-team conference is – never mind that you’re still only playing seven opponents and any conference that size is going to have some dregs – and Troy and the various Louisiana teams will be getting a lot of fat checks.

Also, I dont see much that Swofford could do even if he had the freedom to expand to 16 ahead of other conferences. Notre Dame’s not coming, and you’re not poaching anyone from any conference other than the Big East, and then only if someone else breaks ranks first. All you can do is defend against SEC poaching and then pick up whatever Big East teams are left to maintain at 12, unless you want to do some long hauls to former Big 12 teams.

(And good luck with the four team plus-1 format. Even if you can get the new behemoth SEC and Big 10 to go along – and why would they, when they’re near locks for a championship BCS game – you’d better hope every good western team is folded into the Pac 10 or Big 12, because otherwise there’s a Boise State sort of team that will be filing lawsuits left and right, and they’ll win.)

by T.H. on Apr 27, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defend How?

How do they defend against SEC poaching? If the SEC wants any team in the ACC except Duke, Wake, UNC and UVA they could likely have them. Whether 100% of the fans of VT, Clemson, FSU or Miami are behind the move or just 50% the truth is the numbers don’t lie. Our schools are broke comparatively speaking. GT would likely stay but not because the ACC is so attractive, rather because they have already had their falling out with the SEC.

As for the Big East left overs, everyone argues about the AAU requirements of the Big Ten but they forget that the ACC has our own academic standards. Not only would taking the likely leftovers of WVU, USF, Cinci and Louisville do little for us in terms of TV but it would certainly drop that academic prestige. Might as well add ECU in for good measure.

As for the multiple gimme games, that’s not a bother, teams will do what they want. But then again if this was to play out and include the teams breaking away from the NCAA we’d see all interconference games or some variance of an official policy. Personally that’s what I’m rooting for the most, getting away from the NCAA, enforcing their own policies and scholarship numbers and the like.

And regarding Boise State, they’d likely be the odd man out along with BYU and their “don’t play on Sunday” rules. No shot the Broncos get into a 16 team Pac10. Boise State, BYU, would likely while TTU, Baylor, K-State, Cinci would likely be in jeopardy of losing their BCS status with the addition of Utah and possibly TCU to the mix.

And yes basketball does make up part of the ACC’s revenue. I’m still curious as to what that chunk is in our pie in the grand scheme of things, I still can’t find it. However, as I was saying if this happens it is bigger than the ACC and thus bigger than basketball. But you’d get Duke and UNC twice, the exact same way you get G’Town and Syracuse twice so that wouldn’t really be an issue.

Yeah BoYeeEEeeE

by InTheBleachers on Apr 27, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Big East no longer has only the top 12 entering the conference tournament, but something much worse.

They now have 5 rounds. Teams 9-16 play in the opening round … then the survivors of those rounds play the 5 through 8 seeds the next day, then those winners play the 1-4 seeds on Friday.

So…..it’s nasty, to say the least.

One other advantage the SEC and Big 11 have are their nice TV deals and packages, especially for football, which the ACC, Big 12, Pac-10 etc. don’t have. Easier to lure away big fish.

by sabre74kkn on Apr 27, 2010 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

I Had Forgotten That

It’s still nothing on the Big West’s tournament setup, but it’s pretty ugly.

by T.H. on Apr 27, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

ACC-Pac10

I’d love to see those two leagues partner up to offer up their leagues as a package. both coasts, every major market on the Atlantic and Pacific coast. Football kickoffs for 12 hours and plus the addition of Pac10 teams to the schedules as a means of working for the network. I’d love to see the idea kicked out there and seriously considered. Neither league has the clout on its own but combined they bring Boston, DC, Richmond, Raleigh, Charlotte, ATL, Tampa, Miami, Seattle, San Fran, LA, Phoenix to the party. That would be a legitimate move.

Yeah BoYeeEEeeE

by InTheBleachers on Apr 27, 2010 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Aye Zigga Zoomba Zoomba Zay.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Hicks_small
Opinion about Quinton Coples
Imag0299_small
Quinton Coples NFL Draft Profile Video
Small
North Carolina Basketball Recruiting Chart
Small
Do not fear, Justin Watts has the power.
Small
Kendall Marshall broken wrist vs Creighton
Small
If This Isn't Obvious I HATE Duke

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Rameses_small T.H.